Seem to be eating coils...

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Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:44 pm

I have asked this question on FABO but other than abuse, I am not getting much response.

Our car seems to be eating coils. Doesn't matter the quality.

When we did the rebuild switching out the motor / trans I had asked if I could get rid of the ballast. The answer on FABO was yes. So I did.

On top of changing the  trans/ engine combo, I modded our shift column to a ratchet shiftier on the floor and we were having problems getting the car started ..we had also taken all the pollution crap off of it and removed miles of wire. We could start the engine by hot wiring it but not normally. I took it to a garage to work out the neutral start switch  and they installed a relay ..and connected it directly to the coil...so now I have 2 ..actually 3 wires connected to the positive side of the coil.

We tossed a new coil at it Monday and it worked..but i don't think we solved the problem...we have been backtracking the wiring.

The 3 wires connected to the positive side of the coil.

1. to the electric choke of my carb
2. to the electronic ignition
3. to the relay switch.

Remove either 2 or 3 and the car will not turn over.

When it cools a bit, we will try to start the car in gear.

I am thinking that the 3rd wire may be the issue ?  can anyone see a problem with this relay...something is heating up the coil.

No, I did not draw wiring diagrams of all the mods. We found what worked and clipped out the rest.

I am thinking that I could get around this by hooking up a switched power lead but really don't want to disable the neutral start feature.  I cannot go back to the beginning.

Thanks
ian.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:00 pm

So it has cooled a bit and we went out to play.

Moving the coil will be a must ...and maybe the problem but we are not sold on it....yet.

Tonight, we tried to start it in gear and no joy. The neutral start switch is doing it's job.

We then started it just to set a baseline.

So, we were thinking about moving that wire to a switch power source to take it off the positive coil lead. For a test, we moved it over to the battery..kind of hot wiring it. We tried to start it ..no joy..but when the key was turned off, a gush of gas shot out of the carb..kind of spectacular. We did the same thing again just to see if that was a fluke. Nope.

We put it back the way it was and started fine.

9 views. Anyone have an opinion ?

grassy

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by Churchy on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:15 pm

I always thought the ballast was necessary for the ignition. Keeps the voltage to the coil at 8 volts IIRC. The bypass to start is the only time the coil is suppose to see 12 volts. Are you using the stock ignition?  Do you have a pic or what coloured wires you kept/using? Removing #2 on your list should not keep the engine from turning over. Won't run but should turn over.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by Gazoo on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:38 am

I'm with Churchy here Ian. I'm no wiring specialist, but the ballast resistor is a fusible link so to speak.
Why was it removed?

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:15 am

Before we did the engine swap, we were eating ballasts on a regular basis.

No, using the orange box electronic ignition.

Maybe I was given the wrong info on FABO.

Will look into the orange box..

Thanks
Ian

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:26 pm

Seem to have found the problem...a redundant wire...took it out of the equation and added a power source and all was well..

Looking for a switchable power source..probably under the dash that stays on while key is being cranked but turns off when key is off..

Best place to look would ne in the look coming out if the steering wheel..  ?

Suggestions ?

Thanks, ian.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by JGL on Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:08 pm

MY 360 has a ballast and am running a yellow Accel coil. Never had a problem yet...and it has been on the road for seven plus years. My car was rewired by a semi-retired Chrysler adviser with an older wiring diagram. All there was different except for a few less wires was the change from a dual ballast to a single. My engine is a 1979 and the diagram was of that year too.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:24 pm

I know guys that carry three...just in case the first 2 replacements are bad..what i have done is very common to those that move to electronic ignition..

There are exceptions to all things..

Oh, mine was rewired by me who knows less than nothing and an old guy at the garage station who added a relay that I (and other)cannot figure out why Smile

I need one of those semi retired guys..heck, I would settle for a hard core mopar guy in this land of chevys / ferds..

Know of a switched power source under the dash ?
ian

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by GONEFISHIN' on Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:27 pm

Grassy - where you located?

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:34 am

Hey Gonefishin',

I live in the Annapolis valley of Nova Scotia..very near to the "getting famous" Rockabilly Car show Smile

Ian

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by JGL on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:05 am

Hey Ian bring your car up here and I will connect you with a few Mopar freaks who know their way around old mopars like ours. your only 4-5 hours away.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:13 am

I honestly don't think the car would make it much past Moncton..the road between Sackville and Moncton past is brutally rough..and this is the fixed version..wow.. No help to NB tourism. Ran into a class A that was damaged along that route..

I think we are ok..but I am tempted to trailer it somewhere..I will know in the next while...

Ian

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:57 pm

Wife found them....ths is an interesting trp....

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by JGL on Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:45 pm

Fill us in.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:16 am

JG,

I will and I am surprised that the car is still with us...we are not quite there yet but soon..

Ian.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by square88 on Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:38 pm

This is a difficult thing to visualize without a diagram, however you must have a ballast resistor or you will fry the coil everytime. The neutral safety switch is only to prevent cranking while you are in gear and is not related to the ignition in any way

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:18 pm

Square88,

I understand that the "you must have a ballast resistor or you will fry the coil " is a MOPAR thing...for engines with points. Can you explain why we would need them for an electronic ignition ?   Consensus seems to be no..

Here is what we have followed. We are also searching for the operating temperature of a coil...seems to be pretty elusive..


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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by square88 on Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:16 pm

All coils are designed to operate on approximately 9 volts . when you wire in the resistor  you need to have 12v on 1 side and the coil side will have 9 v then you need to run a wire from your starter relay to the coil side of the resistor that only energizes when cranking. During cranking the battery voltage will drop to approximately 9 v because your starter is drawing about 200 amps and this causes the battery voltage to drop. I am not computer savvy enough to draw you a diagram but you should be able to find one online. I hope this helps you.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by Keith Mopar on Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:00 am

There are some coils made for 12v, Ford and GM have used them with HEI. But in the early days they used a ballast as well. The 12v coils have a built in resister. The reason Chrysler stuck with the reister is because The ballast is designed to reduce the voltage supplied to the ignition coil. The car starts on 12 volts (bypass the ballast resister) but continues to run on about 8 volts (voltage goes thru the ballast).

The main reason Chrysler stuck with the ballast is so under start conditions a full 12v hit the coil for a hotter spark, then in run it went to about 8v through the resistor.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by Coyote Jack on Mon Sep 07, 2015 6:37 pm

Hey Ian,

I know with the MSD stuff you can toss the ballast and then connect the wires that went to the ballast. Not sure about the orange box ignition though.

As far as a keyed power source under the dash, the radio circuit is a good one to use.

Jack

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by JGL on Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:51 am

Well hello Jack,
Nice of you to come visit.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by Coyote Jack on Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:23 am

JGL wrote:Well hello Jack,
Nice of you to come visit.

I do stop in, just don't say much. Different for me. LOL

Jack

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by JGL on Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:00 pm

Different is right! lol!
Did you ever check out Keith Mopar's Mopar babes...it is worth a peek.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by smoken340 on Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:33 pm

Coyote Jack wrote:Hey Ian,

I know with the MSD stuff you can toss the ballast and then connect the wires that went to the ballast. Not sure about the orange box ignition though.

As far as a keyed power source under the dash, the radio circuit is a good one to use.

Jack
Did you get your coil issue cured ?

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

Post by grassy on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:52 am

This has been an interesting journey. We have cleaned up our wiring so it is A1 now. Found some really weird wiring done by an other person.and it was my fault..I didn;'t have the neutralno idea why he did what he did...

It looks like the problem may be the orange box...nothing else makes sense.

Jack, you mentioned a MSD..do you have a model number that is 360 mopar friendly.

Maybe this mopar orange box was made in China Smile

Ian.

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Re: Seem to be eating coils...

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